Getting prosecuted from Dashcam?

[kindai]

I recently submitted some dashcam of a guy who pulled out infront of me (i was doing 50ish on a 60 road) and he pulled out ~20-30 meters infront of me without even looking. Fortunately nobody was following so I managed to escape around the back of him into the junction.

Here is the reply.

Thank you for your recent footage to OpSnap.

After reviewing your footage a decision has been made to take action against the offending vehicle. Depending on the severity of the offence and the evidence submitted the likely outcomes will be a court hearing, a notice of intended prosecution or a driver improvement course. We in the first instance prefer education over prosecution but this will NOT take place if we believe court is more appropriate.

Please retain original footage should the matter be required for a court hearing. If required this will likely be within a 6 month period and we will inform you that this is the case.

You will not hear from us again unless you are required to attend Magistrates Court to give evidence at a 'not guilty' trial hearing. We are unable to give results of outcomes otherwise.

Read into it what you will and to how damning the evidence will be.

 

[jpaul]

Yup it was the cyclist, the police told him that much.

I'd have to look on youtube, but do the wide angle lenses on helmet cameras really enable police to determine near passes ?
that's partially why I don't have one - I know that as I (always) glance over my shoulder as a car approaches it wouldn't capture their distance,
and, they frequently cut in sharply as 'overtake' is completed, which could make camera view deceptive;
the most compelling evidence is when you see the usually more responsive oncoming driver braking or moving into the gutter to let the p*** pass you.

e: all that to say I'd call the polices bluff

 

[BUDFORCE]

I recently submitted some dashcam of a guy who pulled out infront of me (i was doing 50ish on a 60 road) and he pulled out ~20-30 meters infront of me without even looking. Fortunately nobody was following so I managed to escape around the back of him into the junction.

Here is the reply.



Read into it what you will and to how damning the evidence will be.

Yup exactly, so what the police are doing is going to whoever that was and getting them to plead guilty.

 

[Rroff]

Yup exactly, so what the police are doing is going to whoever that was and getting them to plead guilty.

One of the ones I was involved with:

Cases heard at court are in the public domain and as such, we would be able to update you with the result of the hearing. This case however was successfully resolved before a court hearing was necessary. In order to comply with Data Protection Act 2018, I cannot therefore give you specific detail as to what happened to the driver.

Driver admitted guilt (they did actually update me without specific details as to the outcome but I can't reproduce that).

 

[ICDP]

As mentioned earlier the police only need to view the footage to determine if they should prosecute. It would be the officer simply stating they saw evidence that warranted a driving penalty. So your friend may never see the footage. If they do indeed have the footage then your friend fighting this might be more costly than just accepting it.

Also the people assuming camera footage needs to show a clear image of the offending driver need to understand that is not how it works. If you are the registered owner and driver then you are deemed to have been driving. If you share a car then you need to determine who was driving because eventually it will just end up being the registered keeper.

If your friend fights this then they must provide reasonable doubt that the police officer is incompetent or lying and that the 1.5 meter law was not broken. Not an easy task.

 

[kindai]

Yup exactly, so what the police are doing is going to whoever that was and getting them to plead guilty.

Has he had a NIP or already replied and had a summons?

 

[Grey M@a]

Pretty much anyone can update dash cam footage to this link which is for most forces in the UK:

National Dash Cam Safety Portal | Nextbase UK

national-dash-cam-safety-portal ,Nextbase

nextbase.co.uk

When you upload footage it asks if you are willing to go to court, if you are, it gives you a form and a upload link etc

So if there is anything someone doesn't like about your driving, off it goes to get uploaded and you wait to see if you get a knock, or a letter in most cases.

 

[rodenal]

As mentioned earlier the police only need to view the footage to determine if they should prosecute. It would be the officer simply stating they saw evidence that warranted a driving penalty. So your friend may never see the footage. If they do indeed have the footage then your friend fighting this might be more costly than just accepting it.

Also the people assuming camera footage needs to show a clear image of the offending driver need to understand that is not how it works. If you are the registered owner and driver then you are deemed to have been driving. If you share a car then you need to determine who was driving because eventually it will just end up being the registered keeper.

If your friend fights this then they must provide reasonable doubt that the police officer is incompetent or lying and that the 1.5 meter law was not broken. Not an easy task.

While I don't disagree (as per my earlier post) that fighting could be more costly than it's worth, is the 1.5m really the issue here, or evidencing that the driver did not fall "below the minimum standard of a careful / competent driver"?

Also they do not need to prove a police officer to be either competent or not competent, "just" defend the perspective that the judgement used may not necessarily be evidenced in court.

On the other hand, as a driver you are held to a higher standard than other road users, so unless said video is either really quite damming on the cyclists side or simply shows very little wrongdoing (OR does not turn up to court) it might be difficult to escape a penalty.

Again I'm absolutely not saying it should be taken lightly, but if the individual feels strongly that this did not happen it could be worth pushing beyond the initial offer of accepting points blindly.

 

[ICDP]

Agreed but to clarify, the defendant in a driving offence case must introduce reasonable doubt to the court. In this instance that means suggesting the police officer got it wrong and the footage is not sufficient proof.

A very unlikely outcome in all probability.

 

[TBirdUK]

If you elect to go to court wont they have to provide the evidence before the hearing - if you represent yourself you can then, on seeing the footage determine if its worth fighting, if not, change your plea and plead guilty before it then incurs the expense of a court appearance?

 

[BUDFORCE]

If you elect to go to court wont they have to provide the evidence before the hearing - if you represent yourself you can then, on seeing the footage determine if its worth fighting, if not, change your plea and plead guilty before it then incurs the expense of a court appearance?

I don't know but it's a good point.

 

[rodenal]

If you elect to go to court wont they have to provide the evidence before the hearing - if you represent yourself you can then, on seeing the footage determine if its worth fighting, if not, change your plea and plead guilty before it then incurs the expense of a court appearance?

The evidence can turn up quite literally days before or on the day of the case

You could have it delayed in all probability at this point or change the plea but doing this without representation is an extremely risky strategy and may risk simply annoying the magistrate.

As a defendant with (presumably) no legal experience the likelihood of navigating the system to your advantage is slim

 

[Semple]

It concerns me that, given how many dashcams everyone has these days, if you step out of line at any time whilst driving, even accidentally, there is a risk that if someone captures that and submits it to the police you can be prosecuted?

Why does that concern you? There's too many cretins driving on the roads and with too few police about they 99/100 get away with it (jumping red lights is rife at the moment).

Frankly if there's an easy prosecution the police can make just from publicly submitted footage then I'm all for it.

 

[Rroff]

The evidence can turn up quite literally days before or on the day of the case

You could have it delayed in all probability at this point or change the plea but doing this without representation is an extremely risky strategy and may risk simply annoying the magistrate.

As a defendant with (presumably) no legal experience the likelihood of navigating the system to your advantage is slim

In the case of driving and a NIP they need to give sufficient accurate information so as to be able to identify the driver, for speeding this would normally include a photo of the alleged offence.

(It isn't unreasonable to request the police help with identifying the driver by presenting available evidence even if not the video itself still images from it they should be prepared to provide).

 

[Simon]

I had this. The police rang me after Isent details back, discussed it. He sent a link to the video and offered me to go on a course instead.

Apparently the cyclist sends in 4-5 vids a week…

One tip I got was that you weren’t sure who was driving and can ask for footage. Otherwise you have to reply to the section 172 Nip to incriminate yourself without knowing what for

It’s unlikely to go to court from my research last year

 

[Rroff]

Apparently the cyclist sends in 4-5 vids a week…

This actually annoys me - only time I've submitted stuff is when people are doing something outright dangerous and likely to repeat it rather than what might be one off mistake, etc. I expect there are people who submit dashcam footage any time someone overtakes them at remotely any speed, etc.

 

[Simon]

This actually annoys me - only time I've submitted stuff is when people are doing something outright dangerous and likely to repeat it rather than what might be one off mistake, etc. I expect there are people who submit dashcam footage any time someone overtakes them at remotely any speed, etc.

Ironically he was ranting at me for going to fast ( if I was I would have run him over) as I went to go past. You can clearly see he drifts into the middle whilst ranting. I slow down to see what his problem was as he was able over road. It was the fact a van coming the other way had to stop which was the issue.

He was riding up a very steep hill at not much more than walking pace with no path or exit (banks on side are road are very steep).

Anyway spent most the time on the course with people who ran red lights it seems

 

[Simon]

Yup exactly, so what the police are doing is going to whoever that was and getting them to plead guilty.

There is no admission of guilt. Your mate has been issued with a section 172 to identify the driver. As said your friend can’t remember who’s driving so request footage to help.

If not get on the forums and share the letter with details. Without a section 172 there are things you can do

 

[Bear]

People that drive and moan about cyclists need to go out and see for themselves how dangerous some drivers are and how it feels to be close passed at speed. When the police operate close pass operations and pull over offenders, the vast majority spoke to by the police dont even recall passing a cyclist, its truly frightening how poor the observational skills of some drivers are. Without doubt some cyclists are complete dicks, but that can also come from having your life risked by careless drivers on a daily basis that it gets to the point of enough is enough and they end up sending 4 or 5 vids a week. If drivers werent being careless then he probably wouldnt be sending in any

 

[Bear]

This actually annoys me - only time I've submitted stuff is when people are doing something outright dangerous and likely to repeat it rather than what might be one off mistake, etc. I expect there are people who submit dashcam footage any time someone overtakes them at remotely any speed, etc.

The difference is the threat level felt between a person in a car compared to someone in a bike is completely different and no one knows if it may be a one off mistake. Some people go out of their way to close pass cyclists to punish them because they feel cyclists inconvenience them.

I recall seeing a video of bus drivers doing an educational course on close passing. They got the bus drivers to sit on a stationary bike while getting close passed by a bus and to a man they **** themselves. As they knew how it felt then hopefully they would drive with greater empathy.