Nurse arrested for murdering babies

[booyaka]

But what has that got to do with a murderous nurse on a killing spree?

see my point above - just another classic poster who goes round in circles, without actually answering the questions asked, or providing any evidence to back up their "claims"

 

[BowdonUK]

FTFY.

I know it's working as intended. I'm advocating changing it.

The idea is that the jurors are not off put by misrepresentations in the media. In the US they order jurors not to watch the media depicting the case instead.

In the UK there is also the issue that the defence can move to a mistrial because of media representations affecting the case.

I don't see why we can't have the US version here.

We're being treated like children, too immature to handle different opinions.

 

[Ayahuasca]

You, really don't know how bad the NHS is. I don't think you really have an idea of how bad it is. It worse than what you read in the papers.

They employ anyone and I mean anyone, disfuntional families can get their family members in with no experience.

Blood samples left on the window frame for days.
People not taking responsibility because it is not their job and failing to report incidents. ICU during COVID was a disaster, porter's would go in to one room take the bed sheets and enter another room to give someone food or place new sheets.

Show me on the doll where the NHS touched you.

 

[Diddums]

I'm advocating changing it.

The change has had no shortage of advocacy for decades now sadly, you have a higher chance of winning every lottery on the face of the earth on the same day.


Which is why I vehemently support Guy Fawkes 2.0.

 

[BowdonUK]

The change has had no shortage of advocacy for decades now sadly, you have a higher chance of winning every lottery on the face of the earth on the same day.


Which is why I vehemently support Guy Fawkes 2.0.

The interesting aspect of this is though it's blocked online people can still buy a physical copy of the magazine with the article in here.

 

[Zatoichi.uK]

Audio version is an hour and 19 mins though so not exactly a quick read. Where's the cliff notes version?

 

[Hotwired]

It's quite long and unless you're extremely informed to the micro details of the case or willing to read through the court documents you'll just have to gut feeling an opinion on their opinion that the evidence wasn't good enough.

I can't help thinking that there was an opportunity not that long ago, for all these matters to be challenged in a courtroom and that legal representation was available to do just that. Their full time job in fact.

 

[Minusorange]

She was found by a jury guilty of having acted with malice in the murder of numerous babies.

The jury can only decide from the facts they are given, if the facts they are given are questionable though then you end up with cases like Lucia de Berk

The trial covered questions at the edge of scientific knowledge, and the material was dense and technical. For months, in discussions of the supposed air embolisms, witnesses tried to pinpoint the precise shade of skin discoloration of some of the babies. In Myers’s cross-examinations, he noted that witnesses’ memories of the rashes had changed, becoming more specific and florid in the years since the deaths. But this debate seemed to distract from a more relevant objection: the concern with skin discoloration arose from the 1989 paper. An author of the paper, Shoo Lee, one of the most prominent neonatologists in Canada, has since reviewed summaries of each pattern of skin discoloration in the Letby case and said that none of the rashes were characteristic of air embolism. He also said that air embolism should never be a diagnosis that a doctor lands on just because other causes of sudden collapse have been ruled out: “That would be very wrong—that’s a fundamental mistake of medicine.”

Just a snippet from the article, if not thought provoking it's certainly an interesting read, although there may be some bias towards the "she didn't do it" angle and it could have(stupid forum editing I really did write of) course be missing parts of the trial that oppose that view

 

[Eddie99]

There was evidence of the babies having injections of air

There are serious questions over the reliability of this evidence in the US article.

handwritten notes admitting she did it

Not a confession, could easily have been in a mental health crisis and writing down how she was made to feel. There were also notes saying she didn't do it.

Let's doubt the verdict of a jury of our peers who saw all the evidence

A jury that wasn't unanimous, and one juror was allegedly heard saying the jurors had "already made up their minds about her case from the start".

 

[Mr Jack]

Audio version is an hour and 19 mins though so not exactly a quick read. Where's the cliff notes version?

The tl;dr I would say: the NHS has lots of issues; there were obvious other problems with the babies who dies; the evidence that she was there when these babies died isn't worth much; Lucy was held in high esteem by her colleagues; there is no evidence for the "air embolism" theory and the expert who presented it is dodgy - another judge threw out his opinion about the same time; the "confessions" were really nothing of the sort; juries are garbage at assessing evidence and statistics; and the defence did a terrible job of challenging the evidence. I think that about covers it. I suspect you could write a similar article about pretty much any case, but then the evidence as we've seen it seems paper thin but then outside the courtroom we never get the full picture. I guess only one person actually knows.

I dunno, I can see the argument for protecting juries from seeing stuff outside the trial, but at this point a version of her has been paraded through the media already. Does this article make much difference?

 

[Jack_green]

see my point above - just another classic poster who goes round in circles, without actually answering the questions asked, or providing any evidence to back up their "claims"

A clear example was the post office case, that turned up to have lots of issues. Yet, back then then experts were sure about it.

From what I read the experts in her case assumed. There were many assumptions made. The facts in the UK media from reading that article were not really facts , yet some here pointed them out as facts.

Go read the article and then come back and say what you said.

Remember it was a fact you could not get blood related conditions from factor x, turned out to be 100% bull.

Medical expert witness can be dumb.

 

[dowie]

So to be clear, the insulin that was found in 2 of the IV bags just "magically" appeared in there? Was that the "dysfunctional system" that put it in there?

That's part of what makes it seem pretty damning to me, that doesn't seem to be explained away as the baby was particularly vulnerable and she happened to be the better qualified staff member available so of course she handled it etc..

There was evidence of the babies having injections of air, doctor testimony about the cause of death, handwritten notes admitting she did it, her standing over a baby she suffocated, she was there for all 25 of the babies who suffered.

I've not read all of the New Yorker article yet - saw some of it on twitter and the first few pages were just providing an alternative narrative for babies that had died - they were particularly unwell already etc..

Does it actually address any of that stuff or indeed the insulin?

 

[Mr Jack]

Does it actually address any of that stuff or indeed the insulin?

According to the article, there is real no evidence at all for the ait embolism thing, and the medical report about the insulin uses a testing kit that explicitly says it can't be used for synthetic insulin and is unsuited for criminal trials.

 

[Sankari]

Imagine winning the title, 'most prolific serial killer of children in modern British history.' Well done Lucy, enjoy your infamy.

She also removed over 250 confidential nursing handover sheets from her workplace which should not have left the hospital, and she falsified patient records to avert suspicion.

It was also revealed during the trial that Letby had to be told more than once not to enter a room where the parents of one of the victims were grieving.

Letby had also searched for the parents of several infant victims on Facebook, in one case on the anniversary of a baby's death. In total Letby had searched for 11 of the families affected.

Letby herself accepted at trial that the results showed that some victims had been deliberately injected with insulin and did not contest that someone must have administered it to them.

Letby was the only staff member on duty for every one of the 25 suspicious incidents.

Searches of Letby's and her parents' homes, and Letby's handbag, revealed a number of post-it notes handwritten by Letby. These included fragmentary phrases such as "help", "I'm sorry that you couldn't have a chance at life", "I don't want to do this anymore", "not good enough", "why me?", "I haven't done anything wrong", "we tried our best and it wasn't enough", "I am evil, I did this", and "I killed them on purpose because I'm not good enough to care for them".

The police had also discovered that Letby had secretly kept medical documents at home relating to the care of the children. 257 nursing handover sheets were found at addresses linked to Letby, of which 21 related to babies she had allegedly harmed

Yikes. This woman is a ruthless ghoul. I hope she dies in prison.

 

[dowie]

Yikes. This woman is a ruthless ghoul. I hope she dies in prison.

Yeah, that seems pretty damning.

You know some are taking things like mental health awareness too far even things like that are being dismissed. I guess in part perhaps some people are just aware she wrote something and then attribute it to stress etc.. without the context that it was rather a lot of different, disturbing things along with other disturbing behaviour.

I wonder what the "address linked to Letby" refers to? (Since they've referred to say her parents house in the article already ergo if the medical notes were found at her parent's house surely they'd just say that?)

 

[MoNkeE]

I have a belief that all serial killers keep diaries, Altho admittedly not all diary keepers are serial killers. But I would love a percentage on those that are

 

[Jack_green]

Your still missing the point of the question you were asked before.... We all know how much of a mess the NHS is at times, but it's also there at any point for you to walk in and be treated..... for free.

@Zatoichi.uK asked you - "I know it's bad but if you want to make an argument then lay it out here instead of pointing to some external source. I'm open to being persuaded. Let's see it."

Keep repeating that the NHS is bad isn't an answer/or evidence to contradict the "guilty" verdict.....

Just sounds like you have your own agenda and just refuse to be objective about the evidence.... your just cherry picking bits and bobs and throwing out vague comments and conspiracy theories. talking in circles and answering questions with questions....

Sometimes evidence takes years to be published or found. There have been many witch hunts in the past, later on facts appear to change the whole scope.

They didn't really have evidence, they were investigating based on assumptions and poor expert witness reports.
Also evidence can be misunderstood, the way evidence has been collected ( bias), forensic altered, misleading Records etc..

 

[MoNkeE]

You use a lot of words to say not a lot.

 

[the shadow]

Title change

 

[booyaka]

Sometimes evidence takes years to be published or found. There have been many witch hunts in the past, later on facts appear to change the whole scope.

They didn't really have evidence, they were investigating based on assumptions and poor expert witness reports.
Also evidence can be misunderstood, the way evidence has been collected ( bias), forensic altered, misleading Records etc..

you really are continuing to drive forward with your completely baseless agenda of some massive conspiracy / cover up etc..... without actually providing a shred of evidence or facts to back it up.....