Power consumption and efficiency in gaming: AMD vs Intel

[humbug]

They paid MSI to make a piece of ____ handheld just so they can carry it around with them to say "look, someone trusts us with Handheld Gaming"

Too much taxpayers stolen money to throw around and see what sticks.

 

[jigger]

I don't think it is, i think Intel will fight tooth and nail for every penny in every segment.

Nvidia have no skin in this.

Nvidia have an interest in undermining AMD. That said a lot of Nvidia guys are now at Intel, so possibly they have taken that culture with them.

 

[humbug]

Nvidia have an interest in undermining AMD. That said a lot of Nvidia guys are now at Intel, so possibly they have taken that culture with them.

What for, why?

 

[jigger]

What for, why?

To reduce AMD’s revenue. AMD have become very dominant.

 

[Christo]

Sorry to resurrect this thread but it is pretty useful.
Looking at an UNRAID setup to use a setup with decent NVME support I will need to go for a non embedded CPU + with a decent integrated iGPU.

It looks like the i3-13100 or i3-14100 fit that bill + have the low idle power consumption. Is there a comprehensive comparison of idle CPU power consumption anywhere about (I have looked).

(I actually have the option of a cheap 5700G which might fit the bit going by the OPs video), it just doesnt play as nice/as powerful for Plex transcoding.

Thanks for the help - from your help I gathered that modern CPU's pretty much all have low idle states so I went with whatever deal I could get for the money so I snagged a 13500T for £130 which was a good deal I thought.

A bit worried about idle state going by some commentary about some configurations not allowing idle state, I shall be testing the power draw...

 

[jigger]

Thanks for the help - from your help I gathered that modern CPU's pretty much all have low idle states so I went with whatever deal I could get for the money so I snagged a 13500T for £130 which was a good deal I thought.

A bit worried about idle state going by some commentary about some configurations not allowing idle state, I shall be testing the power draw...

I’m not sure about the 13500T but I did fall for the 12700T marketing. Was a pretty disappointing chip in terms of power use and performance. I sent it back, and went with a vanilla 12700 that was on offer, the performance is decent for what I paid, but the 65watt TDP is again complete lies. The power is triple what Intel claim.

 

[Tetras]

A bit worried about idle state going by some commentary about some configurations not allowing idle state, I shall be testing the power draw...

Can be a bit of a 'mare with some PCs to hit the lower states, from what I'm aware, most importantly you need supported SSD/NVME and LAN/wireless drivers, along with the BIOS support to expose those options.

 

[humbug]

I’m not sure about the 13500T but I did fall for the 12700T marketing. Was a pretty disappointing chip in terms of power use and performance. I sent it back, and went with a vanilla 12700 that was on offer, the performance is decent for what I paid, but the 65watt TDP is again complete lies. The power is triple what Intel claim.

Rule of thumb, Whatever Intel advertise as TDP in the most visible sense, triple it...

 

[ChocAndGray]

Having gone from a 5950x to 13900ks to 14900kf I’ll be going back to amd next gen unless intel miraculously lower their power usage.

Fed up of the ridiculous power draw whilst gaming. Running something like Spider-Man without frame gen pulls over 200w at times which is over double some amd cpus!

As someone that sticks with air cooling, having less power usage (and therefore heat) will help massively.

Before anyone asks why I’m air cooling a modern intel processor etc, I set a temperature limit in the bios to 80c and undervolt which does help but from videos I’ve seen some of the ryzen CPU’s are running at under 100watts in most games which would be ideal!

 

[Emlyn_Dewar]

They paid MSI to make a piece of ____ handheld just so they can carry it around with them to say "look, someone trusts us with Handheld Gaming"

Too much taxpayers stolen money to throw around and see what sticks.

It's looking more and more like MSI just released a product that wasn't ready. It's done plenty of damage to them and Intel in the handheld space.

 

[Rroff]

Having gone from a 5950x to 13900ks to 14900kf I’ll be going back to amd next gen unless intel miraculously lower their power usage.

Fed up of the ridiculous power draw whilst gaming. Running something like Spider-Man without frame gen pulls over 200w at times which is over double some amd cpus!

As someone that sticks with air cooling, having less power usage (and therefore heat) will help massively.

Before anyone asks why I’m air cooling a modern intel processor etc, I set a temperature limit in the bios to 80c and undervolt which does help but from videos I’ve seen some of the ryzen CPU’s are running at under 100watts in most games which would be ideal!

14900 seems excessive even over the 14700 for gaming power use - while there isn't a massive amount in it performance wise. If you want to air cool definitely should go for the 14700 over the 14900.

 

[Quixote]

Having gone from a 5950x to 13900ks to 14900kf I’ll be going back to amd next gen unless intel miraculously lower their power usage.

Fed up of the ridiculous power draw whilst gaming. Running something like Spider-Man without frame gen pulls over 200w at times which is over double some amd cpus!

As someone that sticks with air cooling, having less power usage (and therefore heat) will help massively.

Before anyone asks why I’m air cooling a modern intel processor etc, I set a temperature limit in the bios to 80c and undervolt which does help but from videos I’ve seen some of the ryzen CPU’s are running at under 100watts in most games which would be ideal!

I just can't fathom how you're air cooling a 13900ks or 14900f - I'm running a 13700k on a dark rock pro 4 & limiting it 180w P1 & 253w p2, with multi core enhanecment off and a light underclock via MSI's Liteload.
I can get just about stock cinebench performance unless the weather is hot - in which case it drops off a bit due to the thermal limits. Obviously, for lighter-threaded stuff it hits stock performance.
Do you just not do any multi-threaded heavy tasks (outside of shader compilation) ?
If so I can't help but think that a 13600k would be a better choice.

My having a 13700k was due to very specific circumstances - having lots of DDR4 I wanted to re-use to keep the upgrade cheaper + it was in the time when even very low end AM5 boards were £200.
I'd have a hard time recommending Intel at all in the high end now & even in low/ mid end systems, it needs to be a very specific set of circumstances where I'd recommend them.

 

[ChocAndGray]

I just can't fathom how you're air cooling a 13900ks or 14900f - I'm running a 13700k on a dark rock pro 4 & limiting it 180w P1 & 253w p2, with multi core enhanecment off and a light underclock via MSI's Liteload.
I can get just about stock cinebench performance unless the weather is hot - in which case it drops off a bit due to the thermal limits. Obviously, for lighter-threaded stuff it hits stock performance.
Do you just not do any multi-threaded heavy tasks (outside of shader compilation) ?
If so I can't help but think that a 13600k would be a better choice.

My having a 13700k was due to very specific circumstances - having lots of DDR4 I wanted to re-use to keep the upgrade cheaper + it was in the time when even very low end AM5 boards were £200.
I'd have a hard time recommending Intel at all in the high end now & even in low/ mid end systems, it needs to be a very specific set of circumstances where I'd recommend them.

I have done power limiting in the past but now I just set a temp limit in the bios so the cpu downclocks when it hits the temperature I’ve set.

What helps me massively is my particular sample has a high sp rating so the voltage needed to run at certain frequencies is extremely low.

I’m also undervolting by 0.05v, and running best case scenario svid behaviour.

If I ran something like cinebench I know my results would probably be lower than stock due to the throttling I’ve set, but I’m ok with that as my system still eats through anything I throw at it. This is running the 4090 at 0.975v at 80% power limit too!

My pc was massively over specced, as you say I could probably have achieved similar real world performance with lower tier parts but pc gaming is my only vice so I tend to treat myself.

Looking back I wish I had gone for a 7800X3D build. When I buy my next rig (hopefully itx) I’ll be buying the equivalent cpu to that at the time as all I do is game and browse the web.

 

[jigger]

I just can't fathom how you're air cooling a 13900ks or 14900f - I'm running a 13700k on a dark rock pro 4 & limiting it 180w P1 & 253w p2, with multi core enhanecment off and a light underclock via MSI's Liteload.
I can get just about stock cinebench performance unless the weather is hot - in which case it drops off a bit due to the thermal limits. Obviously, for lighter-threaded stuff it hits stock performance.
Do you just not do any multi-threaded heavy tasks (outside of shader compilation) ?
If so I can't help but think that a 13600k would be a better choice.

My having a 13700k was due to very specific circumstances - having lots of DDR4 I wanted to re-use to keep the upgrade cheaper + it was in the time when even very low end AM5 boards were £200.
I'd have a hard time recommending Intel at all in the high end now & even in low/ mid end systems, it needs to be a very specific set of circumstances where I'd recommend them.

It’s not that difficult. Pop a 38mm 120mm fan on a half decent heatsink with 3 or 4 pipes and fit in a case with good air flow.

 

[Rroff]

I just can't fathom how you're air cooling a 13900ks or 14900f - I'm running a 13700k on a dark rock pro 4 & limiting it 180w P1 & 253w p2, with multi core enhanecment off and a light underclock via MSI's Liteload.
I can get just about stock cinebench performance unless the weather is hot - in which case it drops off a bit due to the thermal limits. Obviously, for lighter-threaded stuff it hits stock performance.
Do you just not do any multi-threaded heavy tasks (outside of shader compilation) ?
If so I can't help but think that a 13600k would be a better choice.

My having a 13700k was due to very specific circumstances - having lots of DDR4 I wanted to re-use to keep the upgrade cheaper + it was in the time when even very low end AM5 boards were £200.
I'd have a hard time recommending Intel at all in the high end now & even in low/ mid end systems, it needs to be a very specific set of circumstances where I'd recommend them.

I've got a 14700K with a Dark Rock Pro 4 as the 5 wasn't released at the time, without power limits and the fan profile set to fully ramp CPU and case fans it will get full performance in Cinebench MT, with the fans set to "silent" profile it only loses 0.5% off stock.

The stock fans on the Dark Rock Pro 4 are great if you want quiet without too much performance loss on the 13th/14th gen but replacing them with higher performance fans helps with cooling quite a bit.

The Dark Rock Pro 5 and some of the competition can cool a 13700 or 14700 fine, though I wouldn't go air for the 13900 or 14900 as that is another story again.

 

[ChocAndGray]

The Dark Rock Pro 5 and some of the competition can cool a 13700 or 14700 fine, though I wouldn't go air for the 13900 or 14900 as that is another story again.

It does depend on the sample though. Some cpus have very good vids tables and can be cooled with air fine.

Would I be running heavy multi-core loads on air even with a good cpu sample? No as it would throttle constantly.

But gaming, and shader compilation which is as heavy a load as my machine has and I’ve had no issues. Granted I’ve struck gold with my cpu and how high the sp is.

 

[jigger]

I've got a 14700K with a Dark Rock Pro 4 as the 5 wasn't released at the time, without power limits and the fan profile set to fully ramp CPU and case fans it will get full performance in Cinebench MT, with the fans set to "silent" profile it only loses 0.5% off stock.

The stock fans on the Dark Rock Pro 4 are great if you want quiet without too much performance loss on the 13th/14th gen but replacing them with higher performance fans helps with cooling quite a bit.

The Dark Rock Pro 5 and some of the competition can cool a 13700 or 14700 fine, though I wouldn't go air for the 13900 or 14900 as that is another story again.

I wouldn’t described cooling these chips as fine. It’s doable in some ATX cases, but not fine and definitely not silent.

 

[Rroff]

I wouldn’t described cooling these chips as fine. It’s doable in some ATX cases, but not fine and definitely not silent.

Not silent no, but air will cope with up to the i7s fine as far as performance/thermals go. I've got the Air 540 case which helps a bit, a cramped case would make it more difficult.

As above individual chips probably have an impact as well - mine seems about middling - about normal for vid/VF and actually clocks quite well - I can do upto 4 cores boosting to 6GHz for gaming with no real change to temperatures, but doesn't like undervolting.

 

[Quixote]

I have done power limiting in the past but now I just set a temp limit in the bios so the cpu downclocks when it hits the temperature I’ve set.

What helps me massively is my particular sample has a high sp rating so the voltage needed to run at certain frequencies is extremely low.

I’m also undervolting by 0.05v, and running best case scenario svid behaviour.

If I ran something like cinebench I know my results would probably be lower than stock due to the throttling I’ve set, but I’m ok with that as my system still eats through anything I throw at it. This is running the 4090 at 0.975v at 80% power limit too!

My pc was massively over specced, as you say I could probably have achieved similar real world performance with lower tier parts but pc gaming is my only vice so I tend to treat myself.

Looking back I wish I had gone for a 7800X3D build. When I buy my next rig (hopefully itx) I’ll be buying the equivalent cpu to that at the time as all I do is game and browse the web.

Fair enough ! It's certainly a great performing PC, no doubt about that. Sounds like you got a bit of a golden chip.
I'm not sure how good mine is - I simply couldn't be bothered with all the fiddling needed to see if it's really good on lower volts. So I kept it conservative.

 

[mattyfez]

How could I forget..

The lost boys
And the boodock saints..pure quality although it is a 1999 film..a must watch.