Pro Cycling Thread 2023
- Thread starter SoliD
- Start date
Soldato
Very impressive by Jonas, I feel bad for Pog really. Take away JV's ride and Pog's would have been impressive in itself. JV made him then look average.
All I would say about their crazy level of performance is don't forget how advanced technology and training is now, even just in the last 10 years it's increased so much.
All I would say about their crazy level of performance is don't forget how advanced technology and training is now, even just in the last 10 years it's increased so much.
Soldato
That would be believable if the two of them were the only people able to access the advanced technology and training which would explain a nearly 9 minute lead but obviously that isnt the case and the race isnt finished yet. The amount of time they would have smashed off the climb up the de Joux Plane had they not messed around almost coming to a stop would have been ridiculous, as it stands they still smashed the EPO era record that stood for 26 odd years
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Caporegime
I just don't believe they are clean. Much clean-er but not clean. I think they are just the culmination of every aspect of cycling being hyper optimised coupled with a very clever doping plan. I might be wrong and they are all clean as a whistle but people in that business don't seem to think they are clean. They have just adapted to the current testing model. Ultimately I don't know how much cycling cares about being clean. As always, sports care about the optics rather than the reality. Football doesn't really care about racism and LGBT, it cares about its image and its sponsorship money.
Soldato
People seem to think doping is the domain of cycling (not you personally) but Operation Puerto and Aderlass showed doping is rife in loads of sports, football, tennis, skiing, speed skating etc.
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controversial opinion. The only area of sports I'm really against PEDs is combat sports. In a sport where you could take another mans life, I don't like to think people are juicing even though they are.
In other sports, my issue is the unfair edge when one takes it and others don't but I wouldn't be against cart blanche for them all to take whatever it is. Least it would be out in the open then.
In other sports, my issue is the unfair edge when one takes it and others don't but I wouldn't be against cart blanche for them all to take whatever it is. Least it would be out in the open then.
Caporegime
A lot of people seem to have this view but the big issue with it is that at the elite level some people would cut off their own arm if they thought it would give them an advantage. The pros back in the day used to have heart rate monitors on them at night to make sure they didn't die due to their sludge blood. They were still being tested so imagine if it was a free for all.
The other issue is that you have millions of youngsters watching the sport and wanting to emulate the pros. If doping was legal they would 100% be looking to do that as well.
Soldato
Pog just blew up
Yeah, I suppose they do need protecting from themselves and the example they set.
It'll never happen anyway, drug free sport. I don't know if you follow boxing but recently a doctor came out and explained how easy it is to dodge drug tests (with regards to Connor Benn)
disagree, when you've got people dying in their sleep from whatever they're taking or unknown consequences of the drugs they're taking in the long term it isn't right. I've said previously that potentially what these teams are doing currently may not be illegal but in 5 years time I suspect it will be. It's a 2 tier race and the sudden increase in capability or dynamism of their riders (WvA for instance). If this had slowly happened over 10-20 years it could perhaps be explainable, but this is since 2020, the step change is just absolutely ridiculous.
Soldato
So... you're suggesting they are the only two doping?! The rest of the peloton is clean?
I thought we were talking about their performance, not their difference to/above the others?
Yeah people dying in their sleep certainly isn't a good look. I just don't know what the solution is other than stringent and random testing from UKAD/VADA and other regulators.
Would say it extends to the rest of their teams to some extent. These two teams, most notably Jumbo have started to dominate pretty much every race throughout the year. Difference between Jumbo and UAE is that Jumbo seem to have a number of riders whilst UAE are almost enitrely focussed upon Tadej.
Soldato
No, it would be naive to think they were the only two, I’m sure there are a lot more but who knows who has access to what. I would be more than happy to be wrong but some of the performances have been outrageous and am not sure at all believable, even the press have been questioning it in the post race interviews
Soldato
Yeah, it’s done
This frustrates me as Pog has been bordering on the unreal ever since his TDF win. I don't remember the same level of questioning when he was ripping it apart in 2021 or when he's winning one day classics and then following it up weeks later with week stage race wins.
Soldato
Because it want talked about here doesn’t mean it wasn’t been spoken about elsewhere. He’s been on the radar of loads of people, like when he was smashing it in past tours day after day pretty much isolated from the rest of his team and despite that, you never see him have a bad day apart from the climb one year when he was dropped by JV but he just paced himself back on. Or when he rode the field off his wheel in Strade Bianche 55kms out etc.
I think what has really triggered people this time is you know Pog performances stand out and are a level above pretty much everyone else and when someone smashes Pog then it smells bad. On top of that as I mentioned earlier about the smashing of a 26 year old climbing record set during the EPO era by Pantani and they would have battered that record had they not messed about. JV is now nearly 11mins ahead of third, even the past few tours haven’t had such a big time gap which makes this stand out more and it’s not even finished yet. In fact I think this tour is the first time I’ve seen Pog properly crack, probably due to a lack of racing due to being injured with his btoken wrist
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