Learner: Changing Gears Question
- Thread starter Watson
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Caporegime
I was taught to brake then change, but as Cem said, it fells like I have less control 
I think I need to get my brakes checked soon anyway, feels like the back brakes aren't doing their bit :/
I think I need to get my brakes checked soon anyway, feels like the back brakes aren't doing their bit :/
I change down the box usually, 5-4-3-2-stop, then slot into first before moving off. Just trying to manage to get my feet round heel and toeing at the moment, to reduce wear on the clutch.
Though, sometimes for junctions, turning off a main road, I'll go 5-4, then into 2 to turn off onto the side road.
Though, sometimes for junctions, turning off a main road, I'll go 5-4, then into 2 to turn off onto the side road.
im in the middle of learning and ive been told the following...
roundabouts : go fromt 5th/4th or whatever down to either 2nd or 3rd, depending on the type of roundabout (e.g large & sweeping, or small & tight)
corners : full corners (i.e 90 degree) stop fully, go straight into 1st. If it's a 3/4 corner, if the road to the right/left is clear, go down to 2nd and keep going.
p.s your supposed to brake first, then change the gears etc at the last minute, i.e go to 2nd when you hit 20mph, 3rd gear ar 30mph
roundabouts : go fromt 5th/4th or whatever down to either 2nd or 3rd, depending on the type of roundabout (e.g large & sweeping, or small & tight)
corners : full corners (i.e 90 degree) stop fully, go straight into 1st. If it's a 3/4 corner, if the road to the right/left is clear, go down to 2nd and keep going.
p.s your supposed to brake first, then change the gears etc at the last minute, i.e go to 2nd when you hit 20mph, 3rd gear ar 30mph
Man of Honour
Problem with block-shifting is it totally upsets the balance of the car. If you're pottering around town that's fine, if you're trying to go quickly it's not.
Go for a blast round a track in something like a 325i and block shifting at the entry point of a corner will send you spinning into the gravel trap if you aren't careful. Weight shifting and balance transfer need to be gradual and slight, sharp changes will destabilise a car.
Sure, it might be the *correct* way to drive for your driving test, but when driving fast it doesn't work anywhere near as well - you basically arrive at corners hopelessly unbalanced and in neutral, which is no way to get round a corner fast.
Go for a blast round a track in something like a 325i and block shifting at the entry point of a corner will send you spinning into the gravel trap if you aren't careful. Weight shifting and balance transfer need to be gradual and slight, sharp changes will destabilise a car.
Sure, it might be the *correct* way to drive for your driving test, but when driving fast it doesn't work anywhere near as well - you basically arrive at corners hopelessly unbalanced and in neutral, which is no way to get round a corner fast.
Yep, didn't mention the way I drive when "making progress", well as much progress as is possible in a fiesta!
I've been in cars with people who drive quite quickly, but they'll arrive at a sharpish corner, pretty much coasting in 4th or 5th, sometimes even with the clutch in the revs have gone so low, then on corner exit, they wonder why there's no acceleration - so change to 4th...nope, still nothing...3rd, ahh, a hint of acceleration! (My mum is particularly guilty of this), and on approaching the corner, the car feels horribly unbalanced, and drifty.
Best way is to change down under braking as soon as the revs will allow a lower gear. Haven't mastered heel and toeing yet, and until I do, I'm not even gonna attempt it while braking hard into a hairpin - else I'm gonna kill myself! So the clutch will just have to take the brunt of it for now!!
I've been in cars with people who drive quite quickly, but they'll arrive at a sharpish corner, pretty much coasting in 4th or 5th, sometimes even with the clutch in the revs have gone so low, then on corner exit, they wonder why there's no acceleration - so change to 4th...nope, still nothing...3rd, ahh, a hint of acceleration! (My mum is particularly guilty of this), and on approaching the corner, the car feels horribly unbalanced, and drifty.
Best way is to change down under braking as soon as the revs will allow a lower gear. Haven't mastered heel and toeing yet, and until I do, I'm not even gonna attempt it while braking hard into a hairpin - else I'm gonna kill myself! So the clutch will just have to take the brunt of it for now!!
Associate
Driving around town, block shifts. Rallying the crap out off it, sequential... it's the only way to control it.
I agree that sequential shifting is better on the track to prevent shifting the balance around too much, but driving on roads isn't at all like a track. When you're on the track you know exactly what's ahead and all your skill and concentration is required to work as close to the limit as possible. On the road you've got no idea what's ahead, so all your skill and concentration should be on anticipating what might happen only once in your entire driving career.
Why would you want to sequential shift? Engine breaking works right down to very low revs, and although you wouldn't be able to make a smart gettaway in 5th at 20mph, you'd still be able to maintain your speed. If you're flipping through the gears you wouldn't be able to brake as smoothly, which could be more dangerous in slippy conditions. More movements mean more room for error and less time with your hands on the wheel. As for jerking the car around by going from 5th to 2nd, if you do, you're doing it too early.
In reality I think I sequentially shift quite a bit, but at roundabouts and T junctions with a good view I've got no problem with going from 4th to 2nd. That's what I was taught about 8 years ago. I've never worked out a way to drop to 1st when crawling in traffic though. I have to stop first and then pull away again, or do a few kangaroos, with or without blipping the throttle.
My Dad's got a weird habbit of shifting to the same side of the box first before selecting the gear below. I.e. 5th to 3rd, then 4th before re-engaging the cluch, or 4th to 2nd, then 3rd. I've asked him a few times and he mutters something about driving old VW vans and Fiats with ropey gearboxes so you can't find the gate.
Why would you want to sequential shift? Engine breaking works right down to very low revs, and although you wouldn't be able to make a smart gettaway in 5th at 20mph, you'd still be able to maintain your speed. If you're flipping through the gears you wouldn't be able to brake as smoothly, which could be more dangerous in slippy conditions. More movements mean more room for error and less time with your hands on the wheel. As for jerking the car around by going from 5th to 2nd, if you do, you're doing it too early.
In reality I think I sequentially shift quite a bit, but at roundabouts and T junctions with a good view I've got no problem with going from 4th to 2nd. That's what I was taught about 8 years ago. I've never worked out a way to drop to 1st when crawling in traffic though. I have to stop first and then pull away again, or do a few kangaroos, with or without blipping the throttle.
My Dad's got a weird habbit of shifting to the same side of the box first before selecting the gear below. I.e. 5th to 3rd, then 4th before re-engaging the cluch, or 4th to 2nd, then 3rd. I've asked him a few times and he mutters something about driving old VW vans and Fiats with ropey gearboxes so you can't find the gate.
Depends on the carOriginally posted by MikeTimbers
I often coast down hills. :shrug: it saves on fuel
Most modern fuel injected cars cut the fuel off on overun so it wont be using any.
If you're coasting in neutral however, a small amount of fuel will have to be injected to keep the engine ticking over.
Oh, and another vote for 'block changing'
Associate
taking my lessons atm, and since leson 2 i have been marked as verry good on gears, (i have had about 25 now) i dont like the way i am sposed to do it to get through the test, but i have got to do it, and i will change when i pass my test, altho if i went down through the gears, i would 'feel' like going faster, not something i want to be doing on my test really
Dan
Dan
minidan, you are creating more for yourself to do, I prefer to keep speed up until the junction and slow down and drop my gears closer (not a silly sudden slow down though)
That all depends on the situation. A few roundabouts around here i will drop from 5th to 3rd because it is pretty open, if it gets tighter I will drop down to 2nd (and 1st if I have to stop). If its tight/busy from the outset I would drop straight to 2nd.
It all depends on the situation, and differs, thou a few places where 2nd is used virtually all the time is turning into a right junction.
That all depends on the situation. A few roundabouts around here i will drop from 5th to 3rd because it is pretty open, if it gets tighter I will drop down to 2nd (and 1st if I have to stop). If its tight/busy from the outset I would drop straight to 2nd.
It all depends on the situation, and differs, thou a few places where 2nd is used virtually all the time is turning into a right junction.
Man of Honour
I have to say that I agree with the suggestion that you change gear according to the situation that is presented... block changes are very useful for city driving, and for country side sequential is potentially better. However I don't think there should be THAT much of a shift in weight if match the revs properly - gear changes *should* be un-noticeable other than the noise of the engine - you shouldn't FEEL the deceleration if you are doing corenering and things like that - so the weight inablance is not really an issue - if however you are purely doing engine braking you wouldn't be doing that really that much on a track anyway as track diriving relies a lot on your brakes too - and hte engine/gearbox is there to give you the power to counter act the braking` - you drop the gears to keep it on the cams or keep it on the power - or keep a slide going or whatever.
At the end of the day, you change gear instinctively as you end up knowing your car so well that you just change gear according the the situation, most of you if not all of you most probably change gear without even realising you've done it as you are checking out the cars driving past, or the girls with low cut tops or whatever... but really keeping an eye on the road and your mirrors!
At the end of the day, you change gear instinctively as you end up knowing your car so well that you just change gear according the the situation, most of you if not all of you most probably change gear without even realising you've done it as you are checking out the cars driving past, or the girls with low cut tops or whatever... but really keeping an eye on the road and your mirrors!
dexteruk
D
dexteruk
interesting to hear some of the *Opinions* on which way to change gear when making progress on the road.....
i would ask all of you who sequential change down when braking hard for a corner this question ;
are you braking as hard as you can for the whole time you are braking?
most of you will not be, because you are concentrating on clutching, de-clutching and moving a gear lever. unless you have ABS you will need to be concentrating on finding grip levels to moderate your braking
if you block change it means that when you are braking then it is the only thing you are doing. Just braking. You are concentrating 100% on slowing down as quickly as possible, as you start to release the brakes you change downt he the required gear, get back on the power and drive away.
Brakes are for slowing, gears are for going.
"Roadcraft" is the police driving system, it is what the IAM driving style is based on, and it is what all Blue light qualified drivers have to learn before being qualified.
Roadcraft instructs block changes.
i would ask all of you who sequential change down when braking hard for a corner this question ;
are you braking as hard as you can for the whole time you are braking?
most of you will not be, because you are concentrating on clutching, de-clutching and moving a gear lever. unless you have ABS you will need to be concentrating on finding grip levels to moderate your braking
if you block change it means that when you are braking then it is the only thing you are doing. Just braking. You are concentrating 100% on slowing down as quickly as possible, as you start to release the brakes you change downt he the required gear, get back on the power and drive away.
Brakes are for slowing, gears are for going.
"Roadcraft" is the police driving system, it is what the IAM driving style is based on, and it is what all Blue light qualified drivers have to learn before being qualified.
Roadcraft instructs block changes.
Man of Honour
I didn't come up with that good an explanation... I said: "and the engine/gearbox is there to give you the power to counter act the braking" - which is not quite as erudite as your explanation! I have my IAM and it certainly was one of the things they taught us - you have to spend your time concentrating on things around you and what the car is doing, not if you are in the right gear!
Braking while heel and toeing down the gear box is the only way to go when making progress.
If, say, you're blatting along (on a track) at 120mph, and there's a 40mph hairpin at the end...By your theory, we would be hard on the anchors, slower and slower, then as we get off the brakes to turn in, we select second and accelerate away. Problem is, that with the car practically coasting under the last bit of braking, it would be horrifically off balance, and the effect of engaging 2nd could be disastrous.
On the other hand...brake hard in 5th, and as soon as the revs drop enough to allow 4th to be used, heel and toe down into 4th, while maintaining optimum pressure on the brakes. The engine braking effect by having 4th engage would slow the car better than just the brakes, and by the time you've got to second, you'll have the car nicely set up for the corner, on neutral throttle.
All this is theoretical by my speaking btw, I've never driven on a track before. But it's what every single rally driver does, every car with a manual gearbox on track as well....so it must be right
If, say, you're blatting along (on a track) at 120mph, and there's a 40mph hairpin at the end...By your theory, we would be hard on the anchors, slower and slower, then as we get off the brakes to turn in, we select second and accelerate away. Problem is, that with the car practically coasting under the last bit of braking, it would be horrifically off balance, and the effect of engaging 2nd could be disastrous.
On the other hand...brake hard in 5th, and as soon as the revs drop enough to allow 4th to be used, heel and toe down into 4th, while maintaining optimum pressure on the brakes. The engine braking effect by having 4th engage would slow the car better than just the brakes, and by the time you've got to second, you'll have the car nicely set up for the corner, on neutral throttle.
All this is theoretical by my speaking btw, I've never driven on a track before. But it's what every single rally driver does, every car with a manual gearbox on track as well....so it must be right
I didn't think it had anything to do with that - the debate is which is the best method for slowing the car down for a corner as quickly as possible - and that's going down the box.
If anything, it's safer as well, you can do it without being on the limit of braking, and the car is more balanced when slowing down than if you're practically coasting - which feels floaty and unconnected.
If anything, it's safer as well, you can do it without being on the limit of braking, and the car is more balanced when slowing down than if you're practically coasting - which feels floaty and unconnected.
Soldato
Reverse in?
If I remember the highway code from 10 years ago it says something about reversing out of driveways onto roads?
HT
Soldato
I was told by my instructor that engine braking wasn't strictly necessary anymore, and said 'brakes for slow, gears for go', except for on hills, but if I could do it anyway then he nor the instructor wouldn't have a problem with it because its not necessarily 'wrong' (providing you don't wack it down a cog way to early so the car nosedives and the revs to about 5000!), just different to how they teach nowadays.
I tend to do it, initially just to practise going through the gears either way, but now I do block changes almost as a matter of course when I am driving to help me slow down.
I tend to do it, initially just to practise going through the gears either way, but now I do block changes almost as a matter of course when I am driving to help me slow down.
